Ep-247 Denied Entry: Navigating Identity with Atheer Yacoub

[Pre-Roll Ad]

Saadia Khan
Hey there, welcome to Immigrantly! I’m Saadia Khan, and I am so excited to have you here in this space. Now those of you who listen to Immigrantly regularly know that that I am an anxious person, as a kid, when anxiety would rear its ugly head, I found solace in the world of stories, creating characters and weaving narratives became my armor, my way of finding peace. And you know what I held on to this coping mechanism until I turned 10. But now, as we see so much pain and suffering around us, I feel this burning need to create a story. Once again, that soars above hatred and division. You know, when I first came to the US, I carried this hope for a better future. But today, seeing the horrors unfolding in the Middle East, my heart is heavy with despair. That's where Immigrantly comes in.

It's my way of responding to this despair, a platform where stories become a powerful force for change. And I want you, all of you to be part of it. I invite you to join me in crafting a tale that transcends borders and biases. In this story, in our story, every character embodies empathy. It's a place where understanding bridges the gap between cultures, and compassion, triumphs over hatred. And you know what, in today's episode, we'll do just that.

I'm joined by an amazing guest, a comedian whose humor serves as a tool for change.

[Excerpt]
This is called Muslims For Peace. It's kind of crazy that we have to specify we're Muslims, but we're for peace, you know? It's like not, it's not like the default setting. It's like we always have to qualify it. No, we're the good Muslims, you guys.

Saadia Khan
Atheer Yacoub is a Palestinian Muslim, comedian, writer and podcaster. Based in New York, her comedy and content revolves around personal stories of her upbringing in Alabama, immigration, religion, and gender roles. She recently came out with her debut comedy album Denied Entry, which is available on all streaming platforms, and I highly recommend you listen to it for a good laugh.

[Excerpt from Denied Entry]
Do we have any other Palestinians in the crowd? That's the right energy. We're exhausted from protesting. I was in Palestine this summer and a lot of friends were messaging me being like, oh my god, I'm seeing what's going on in the news is your family. Okay, is your family okay? And I had to explain to them well actually, my family lives in Alabama. So no.

Saadia Khan
Atheer is the co-creator and co-host of Muslim Girls DTF discuss their faith, a critically acclaimed comedy schedule, as well as co-host of the podcast, The No Fly List, where she basically engages in conversations with other minorities about their everyday experiences with humor. So let's welcome Atheer to the show.

Welcome to Immigrantly Atheer! We are so excited to have you here.

Atheer Yacoub
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Saadia Khan
So you live in Brooklyn. We were talking about where you live. Talk to me about Brooklyn. How do you like it?

Atheer Yacoub
I really love it. A lot of comedians. I'm a comedian. A lot of my friends live in the neighborhood. It's like tons of comedians. And I don't know, it's fun. I feel like it's more community. I lived in Manhattan for like 14 years and I was just ready for something new and different. And you know, all my friends. They never leave Brooklyn like I don't get it. Now. I get it. You never want to leave. You're like everything's around here. I don't want to go back to the city and it's just too much. It's too stressful.

Saadia Khan
It's interesting. You call it “city.”

Atheer Yacoub
I know, because people don't consider Brooklyn the city which is ridiculous, but whatever.

Saadia Khan
You know, for me, Brooklyn is city, Queens is city. Manhattan is city. And then I I live in the -burbs, which is like, I would like to think I live in the city, but I don’t.

Atheer Yacoub
It’s city adjacent.

Saadia Khan
I like that. I like that. But you grew up somewhere else.

Atheer Yacoub
Yeah. So I was born in Alabama.

Saadia Khan
Initially, I thought I'll ask you: what was it like growing up in Alabama? And then I was like, No, I'm sure a lot of people have already asked this question. So I will tweak it a bit. And I'll ask you: how has growing up in Alabama informed you and your outlook on life?

Atheer Yacoub
Okay, I like that question already. It's given me a very grim bleak outlook on life. No, I'm so I was born there. But I moved to Palestine when I was a baby. So I lived in Palestine, on and off till high school. And then I finished high school in Alabama. College and moved to New York. So I spent a good chunk of my life in Alabama, for sure. And, gosh, I guess it's hard to separate, like one part of your life and how it's informed your outlook, because I think that having that dichotomy more influenced my outlook in life than just living in one place? Because if you don't have something to compare it to, it's hard, you don't really know. It's like, I don't know. It's all I knew as a kid. I would say, yeah, it didn't really think I was different until after 9/11. And then I was like, Oh, wow, that everyone, you know, no one really knew anything about Arabs or Muslims. And then now after that, all they knew was something negative. So that was a very difficult time. And I was like, I gotta get the hell out of here as quickly as possible. But my parents like, no, you're not going out of state for college. And I was like, dammit.

Saadia Khan
Why?

Atheer Yacoub
Because they were strict, and they were like, overprotective, and maybe

Saadia Khan
They just love you a lot. And they just want you to be with them. That too, and they still do, and I want my kids to be with me all the time. I'm stalking them when they're not with me.

Atheer Yacoub
No, I get that. They want that too. And it's just hard because you know, you want to live your life and you want to be happy. And I don't want to live here for the rest of my life, right and in Alabama and continue this cycle. For me, I'm like, if they lived somewhere else, maybe or even Palestine, I loved living in Palestine. I didn't want to live in Alabama or the states in general. But, you know, clearly things are not the most stable. And nor were they ever what I lived there. But still even with that there's community and a sense of belonging that I don't have a never, ever felt an Alabama never felt any kind of roots being put down and just felt like I was this foreign alien in this place. And I just didn't understand. Whereas New York, like everyone feels like they belong, and it's different. But then when I go to Palestine, I'm, you know, reacquainted…

Saadia Khan
You really belong, really belong. You know, it's so fascinating to me when I hear kids of immigrants talk about this, because I have two kids who were born here, raised here, and I see this yearning for how to belong and for me as an immigrant, and I know you talk a lot about your parents. So I am that parent. I am that immigrant parent. Since I grew up in Pakistan, I grew up in a country where I was part of the dominant population, right? I do see myself as an outsider-insider, and I'm content with where I am, but my kids, they struggle to belong. And that really hurts me in ways. But this idea of belonging and wanting to belong is so fluid, and it's so complicated for kids of immigrants, you just said that it was difficult for you to belong in Alabama, you didn't feel that you fit in having born here, grown up here. Why is that disconnect still?

Atheer Yacoub
I don't know how we would have been if I was born and raised in New York, because I do feel like I belong in New York. But it's a different psychosocial belongingness that need for belonging from a very like innate, human need to belong, that I don't have anywhere else but my homeland. And maybe because Palestine is also constantly under attack, we're told that we don't exist. And that makes us very much like no, we do exist very much belong there because we're told we don't belong there. So I don't know if it's really necessarily because of my experiences in the US as much as it is what's pulling me in Palestine specifically because I have friends who parents are from Pakistan and they don't feel like they belong there in Pakistan, but then here, I don't know. I think it's because I didn't have a community in Alabama that I felt like I belong to so maybe they're even like the immigrants here who are Arab or Palestinian, I feel very different because our experiences are different. So they're your experiences are just the same, you're living in the same way you're treated the same way. You speak the same language, it's different. I just think it's shared experiences, what makes you feel like you belong?

Saadia Khan
Let's talk about Palestine. So the last few weeks have been…challenging to say the least. A lot of things are happening in Palestine right now. Our heart goes out to people in Gaza, their suffering and their repression. But there is a shift in consciousness in America that we are seeing people are eager to learn about Palestine, about the history of the region, about the indigenous population, about the oppression. How do you see the current political climate and the shift that's happening? Do you think it's enough?

Atheer Yacoub
I'm noticing that the public opinion is shifting, but until the people in power, shift their policies, I don't know how that's going to change things. But I'm hoping with the public opinion, influencing and putting pressure on the powers that control all this, we're able to make some sort of change. So we're hopeful.

[Excerpt]
Atheer Yacoub
I haven’t always had the best luck with men. And I think it started with my high school boyfriend. I think things just didn't work out between us because I was Palestinian, and he was gay.

Saadia Khan
Atheer, you talk about Palestine, your identity through humor? You do that a lot? Right? And I'm curious to know, as these conversations are shifting conversations about Palestine are shifting, do you think humor is still the best tool for you do engage in conversations around your homeland? Or do you see that shifting too, for you personally?

Atheer Yacoub
That's a great question. I think in conversation, and generally, I'm not trying to be funny and making jokes because I'm like, I do that for a living, I'm not gonna do that in conversations unless it organically comes up. But humor was and still is the tool for me to express myself and the fact that our voices are being suppressed. And people are getting, you know, fired for talking about their beliefs. And for speaking out against these atrocities. You know, I'm sure there's places that don't want to book me. Social media is literally taking down posts and silencing and shadow banning and blocking, you know, Palestinians from speaking out. So I feel an even greater duty to do this through humor, because, like, I enjoy doing satire, political humor, because that's how I started this experience like shaped me and who I am. So for me, my comedy is very personal and talking about my life. And so how can it not be informed by this experience that really made me who I am. So I continue to use it, and I'm still talking about it on stage. And I'm going up and making jokes to bring attention to the situation. I did like a little satire sketch on my Instagram that was well received just to show the hypocrisy and kind of what's going on. So I think when people take things in through humor, definitely their guard is down. So they're able to take in messaging that maybe otherwise they wouldn’t have because you're not as guarded if you're laughing, and then you might not even realize fully why you're laughing. And then it kind of seeps in and you're like, oh.

Saadia Khan
Yeah, it’s more palatable. Yeah. You also talk about how important it is for you, that your humor be relatable. Yeah. How do you define relatability?

Atheer Yacoub
I think a lot of it is universal stuff, just talking about family and dating. And you know, those dynamics that we have between relationships, like everyone can relate to that, because when we relate to something, it makes us care about it. And we have a shared experience and a shared bond.

Saadia Khan
Right? Atheer, this is something that I've asked other comedians do. A lot of times you talk about stuff in a self-deprecating way, right, you're making fun of yourself or culture, parents. And I wonder, how do you ensure that your comedy doesn't reinforce the stereotypes that already exist, especially in the US around immigrants or accidents, culture and norms?

Atheer Yacoub
Well, I try not to make jokes that do reinforce the stereotype. And if I do, I hope people understand that it's supposed to be ironic and satirical. Putting up a mirror are a light to those things that have been said about us and just showing how ridiculous they are.

Saadia Khan
Give me an example of the ridiculousness of things that people say about, you know, Arabs or Muslims, Palestinians.

Atheer Yacoub
Yeah, I mean, you know, especially in the South, we're constantly being asked like, what church do you go to? What are you? Kind of alluding to the fact obviously, that we're terrorists, because that's like their like, go-to thing, saying that we're backwards. And then I’ll, you know, try to make a joke that shows that they're actually the ones that are backwards and kind of a shine a light to that, you know, a joke about my brother, being a progressive Muslim husband and father.

[Excerpt]
My older brother, he's married with kids, and my brother is actually a pretty progressive Arab Muslim husband, because he cooks, he cleans, he takes care of the kids, he wears the hijab in the family.

Like something silly like that, where it's like, just sort of challenging the gender roles that they think that we have.

Saadia Khan
Talking about humor and stereotypes, I was listening to one of your segments in your album Denied Entry. And you talk about your name, Atheer, what does it mean, by the way, before I even ask you this question?

Atheer Yacoub
So it's not the same root word. I don't think my research but it does have like an ethereal meaning, something in the atmosphere, also means like something valuable. But something like celestial.

Saadia Khan
You talk about how people are confused about your ethnicity, because your name sounds weird to them. And then they will come up with all these different ways to you know, gauge who you are, and say weird stuff. Can you share a few anecdotes of how people have guessed who you are because of your name?

Atheer Yacoub
People just don't know what to ask, like, I've been in the South or in Alabama, people are shameless, and just will say, what are you? What is this?

Saadia Khan
But is it different than New York?

Atheer Yacoub
Yeah, no one cares in New York, right? So refreshing. No one gives a shit. And people just say, Oh, that's a cool name. What's the origin of that name? And that's, that's fine. But people aren't like, what is that? What are you? Yeah, that's acceptable. They're just curious. And they're like, that's a really nice name. What's the origin? But yeah, it's crazy with others. I had a joke about like, this woman was like, you look, uh, international. Like, it's very a creative way. Like so what is that…?

Saadia Khan
You know, because I have an accent. People are quick to judge the minute I open my mouth. They know I'm not originally from the United States. And I used to work for the Small Civil Society Organization. We used to do a lot of work with UN Women and UN entities. And I remember I was sitting in a meeting at the UN. And there was this sweet lady sitting next to me, and she goes to me, where are you from? And my response was, okay, I'm not going to tell her where I'm from. I'm just going to tell her what town I'm from in New York. And I was like, Oh, I'm from this town. And obviously, that wasn't enough for her. So she pauses for a minute. And then she turns around again, and she's like, what, where is this beautiful accent from? And then I was like, yeah, this accent is from Pakistan, but Pakistan doesn't have one accent. So I honestly don't really get the question, but I know what she was saying. So it's interesting how sometimes we think there are spaces that are more inclusive, progressive, whatever you call them, but they are not actually as progressive or inclusive as you would want them to be.

[Music]

Atheer, talk to me about your podcast The No Fly List.

Atheer Yacoub
Yeah, so it's in hibernation now but I had a podcast called The No Fly List where we interviewed other comedians, artists and musicians whoever like POC and talking about their experiences. Growing up brown, black, Latino in America.

[Excerpt from The No Fly List]

Hi, guys. I'm Atheer. And I'm Leila, and we're on The No Fly List. Wait, what? No, our podcast The No Fly List. Oh, right. Sorry. Sorry. I just got back from Guantanamo. I've got gitmo. Gitmo brain. Gitmo brain. Oh, no, no, seriously. Leila is a journalist reporting from Guantanamo.

And Atheer is a comedian and writer who hasn't been sent to Guantanamo yet, but who knows? That’s right. Every episode we're gonna bring you fun and interesting guests as we talk about the joys of being brown in America.

Saadia Khan
You have this segment where you put people on “the no-fly list.”

Atheer Yacoub
Oh, yeah. So people that we don't like, if we still had it.

Saadia Khan
We’ll do it here on Immigrantly. Let's put a few people on the no-fly list right now.

Atheer Yacoub
Actual people who don't deserve to fly instead of innocent people. I mean, where do we begin Biden, the whole administration, all of America. I mean, not the government, not the people because apparently a lot of people are actually shifting their opinion. Whole Israeli cabinet. Let's just say Zionists. Okay, a period that covers a lot of people.

Saadia Khan
But there are so many nice, sweet people out there, right? Absolutely. Growing up, I remember my dad would always talk about how Muslims are so similar to Jews, and we do find humanity in communities because it's not about religion or religious identity. It's about politics and oppression and colonialism.

Atheer Yacoub
And it's interesting because every time we post something about Palestine, we have to be like, but we're not anti-Jewish. We're not anti-Semitic, anti-Zionism is anti semitism. And, you know, it made me realize, and a lot of people have been talking about this, like, now we are centering our suffering around this narrative that they try to feed into the world, that if you criticize Israel, if you criticize Zionism, which is inherently a fascist, racist ideology, so if you're like, are you against fascism, are you against racism, or against treating other people as lesser than human? Yeah, then you also hate Zionism. But then those same people, there's such a cognitive dissonance. Lately, it’s crazy how like, you sort of want to preempt it like, no, no, like, we have nothing against our Jewish community. And like, actually, they've been huge allies to us and like Jewish Voice for Peace have been incredible. And so I want to stop making that the next logical leap that just because you say you're anti-Zionist, you have to follow it up with, but we also love Jewish people. Yeah, it's a given, like it should be a given. And it's like, it sucks that the burden is on us to have to say that constantly.

Saadia Khan
You’re absolutely right. But that narrative was set post 9/11, Atheer. We’ve been carrying that burden for more than 20 years, anytime, anything happens, or if there is an attack by Muslim perpetrators, every Muslim in the entire world has to justify their existence. And they have to say, oh, by the way, we denounce this act of terrorism, wherever it's happening. You're absolutely right, that narrative has to shift because it is taxing it is also burdensome on Muslims, and their mental health and their well-being. But at the same time, as you said, there is so much propaganda around all Muslims are saying this because they don't like Jewish community, I feel it's also important to be vocal about that when you feel comfortable being vocal, right? So for me saying this, and it may be because I am not as closely attached as you are, right? Because Palestine and Palestinian cause is extremely personal to you, there is no way that I could ever understand what you go through and how you feel. For me, it's also important to say that, but you're right, we cannot say it again and again, because we are tired too. We're not responsible. We are not responsible for someone else's actions. I was thinking about this, are people asking white Christians about the atrocities that Christians committed? Or white supremacists continue to commit? How many times do people say, Oh, do you denounce this? Or have you denounced it? How many times do people ask any other religious identity about the atrocities that people from their community have committed? And by the way, every human being, every religious ethnic group, at some point may have committed some atrocities.

So you're right, it is taxing the last few weeks have been exhausting as a Muslim. They have been exhausting, and I can't imagine what you must be going through. But just as someone who identifies as Muslim, I am an anxious person to begin with, and my anxiety is at. I don't know where, right? And that is because I know that we have to prove our innocence. We are assumed guilty first.

Atheer Yacoub
Yes. And the demonization of Muslims has been happening for ages, the struggle for Palestinian freedom also, you know, while there is a huge Muslim majority in Palestine, there's also huge Christian population that are also treated the same as Muslims, because they're Palestinian, and the ideology of the State of Israel is to have an exclusively Jewish state and only give rights to their Jewish members, white Jewish members because Ethiopian Jews, Yemeni Jews, others, they're treated lesser than also now if you're anti-Zionist, even if you're orthodox or Hasidic, they are also subject to beatings. There's like footage now of protesters, anti-Zionist protesters in Israel, their own citizens are now getting beaten.

Atheer Yacoub
So now, it has become clear the distinction between what they want they don't even want just an exclusively Jewish state. It's now a Zionist fascist regime and anyone that doesn't comply is subject to physical mental harm being expelled. Now it's they've shifted so far right that even their own citizens are like up in arms.

Saadia Khan
How difficult can it be to see humanity in everyone? And to see everybody's self worth and dignity? Like, how difficult can that be? Why are some humans treated lesser? And I will say this, this is something that we've seen in the West. And every time especially for Muslims, obviously, specifically for Palestinians, it's like, every time we're like, okay, now everything is fine, we belong, we're happy, things are moving forward. And then something happens. And it just takes us like, at least, I don't know, 30 years back that regression of how Muslims are viewed, and it's tiring.

Atheer Yacoub
My theory also, I have this book about the sociopaths, world leaders and CEOs. So it's talking about how most of these people are sociopaths. It's not same as like being a killer, or, but some of them are. And so in order to be in these places of power, in order to be someone that wants to attain this level of power, you must be sick in the head in some way. So that's what I think when you say empathy is. Sociopaths lack empathy. So I do see other countries that have experienced oppression and a history similar to ours stand up because they can see that and they can empathize.

Saadia Khan
But do you think there is lack of knowledge as well?

Atheer Yacoub
If we're talking about people, it's a lot of brainwashing.

Saadia Khan
Brainwashing or lack of knowledge. Sometimes we don't have enough knowledge, or we don't want to talk about stuff that makes us uncomfortable, right? It's difficult.

Atheer Yacoub
Anything that challenges the narrative that you've been told since because it shakes you. A lot of you are coming out from underneath that Zionist brainwashing and talking about how they were taught at a very young age, since Hebrew schools, this completely different narrative, and not even bringing up Palestinians to the story as if we weren't there. And that's the story. So I think it challenges their identity, their sense of self. And so when you deconstruct that, this one belief that you've been told to hold on to for dear life, and now you realize that it was a lie, a very elaborate, disgusting, violent lie, it makes you question your whole self, because you're like, Well, if this isn't true, what else is not true? So it makes sense. It's easier to not open that door and pull at that thread. When it comes to anything that challenges your identity.

Saadia Khan
Exactly. I feel like growing up in Pakistan, there is a history right? A bloody history of Partition, there's a bloody history of 1971 war, and we will fit a narrative. We grew up with that narrative, we really believed in that narrative. And when I came to the US, and even now, when we look back, and I think about partition, and even 1971 War, where Bangladesh was created, and the atrocities that were committed by Pakistani army at the time, it's difficult to digest all of that, right. Because in my mind, there are some institutions that are sacrosanct, to challenge yourself is the most difficult, I think, to challenge your pre-existing notions and narratives about what you really believe in and you almost hold on to that as part an extension of your identity. But we all have to do it for our collective humanity. Because if we don't, then how do we call ourselves human at the end of the day?

[Music]

Atheer, let's talk about comedy. So I interviewed Aizzah Fatima.

Atheer Yacoub
Yes, she’s incredible.

Saadia Khan
And again, you guys use humor to talk about a lot of issues and you talk about dating. Let’s go to dating from war and destruction. We are moving to dating, guys. That's the same thing. Same thing, also has a lot of destruction. It has a lot of destruction. I've been married for what? 20 years? Yeah, that was the last time I dated and that was my husband.

Talk to me about your experience in the dating world. And I know you guys do this comedy called Muslim Girls DTF: Discuss Their Faith. You talk about Islamophobia through like dating which I'm sure you have some interesting stories to share with us.

So talk to me about that.

Atheer Yacoub
So it's a talking head and a sketch comedy show and we're now doing a live stand up show as well. But we bring on you know, different Muslim women of different backgrounds and talk about like, what it's like dating as a Muslim woman or what's it like, you know, if you date someone who is like, ignorant to the religion and what kind of questions that people ask you how they hit on you, and like…

Saadia Khan
What kind of questions people ask?

Atheer Yacoub
It’s funny when they like, someone's hitting on you and they try to like just learn like couple of words of Arabic or just be like salaam aleikum or like just something like…

Saadia Khan
Does it bother you when people say salam aleikum who don't know?

Atheer Yacoub
I mean, if you're just doing with the purpose of getting in my pants, yes. But if you're just saying it like I see you and like, I'm just saying peace then yes. And if you know what it means then yeah, you're just making a mockery out of it.

I've mostly dated Palestinian men, and I was engaged to, a Palestinian Muslim. Then I realized, like, this was the narrative. I had to deconstruct. I must be with someone Muslim, and I must be with someone, if not Palestinian, definitely Arab, ideally Muslim Palestinian Arab. But if you have one of those things, great. Then it’s okay, yeah. After my engagement, like, totally blew up in my face and didn't work out, I realized, like, I was just setting the standard that I've been told, like, I must comply to because everyone in my family did. All my brothers married traditional Palestinian women and doing the thing, I'm the kids and get married. And I'm like, the only one out of three boys. And now my younger brother got married. So it's like, what's wrong with her? So I had to open up my worldview about that and be like, well, maybe I don't have to, and there are other people I can relate to with similar experiences.

Saadia Khan
What was the most challenging part of getting to that point where you're like, maybe I don't have to?

Atheer Yacoub
I think it took like, a few years, it takes like, meeting different people and opening up your world to them, and then realizing, okay, like this could work, I could, you know, possibly bring this person to my family, but at the end of the day, you're gonna be living with that person, and your family will come around, I met other people who have married out of their faith or ethnic background culture, but the more I talk to people from different cultures, children of immigrants, we all have the same experiences, it's very easy to relate.

Saadia Khan
It goes back to self-preservation, right? A lot of parents just want to preserve their culture, their identity through their kids, which sometimes can be obviously difficult for the kids to reconcile with. And so are you dating right now?

Atheer Yacoub
Yeah, I've been with someone for two years. He's Haitian. And so his parents are immigrants. And so we relate very much on like this topic, and I haven't introduced him to the parents yet.

Saadia Khan
You haven't.

Atheer Yacoub
I told my mom, look, once you meet the parents, it's like we're getting married, right? You don't just be like, Oh, this is my boyfriend. There's no like, word for you're just like you're engaged.

Saadia Khan
He hasn't met your parents yet.

Atheer Yacoub
No. Like my mom knows about him. But I'm like last step will be like, a good thing. She knows about it. Yeah, she knows. I told her. She. I mean, she never brings it up. I think she pretends she never heard it. But I'm like, Okay, well, we're gonna have to have that time again. So I'm sure they'll love him once they meet him. And honestly, it took meeting him to completely like, deprogram that last bit of I have to be with someone that is X, like, what about your values? I was willing to compromise myself to be with somebody that my parents, who don't know me at all.

Saadia Khan
Oh my gosh, this scares me. Because I think about my kids. And I'm like, do they think I don't know them?

Atheer Yacoub
Do your parents know you fully?

Saadia Khan
Yeah, you're right. But we change. We change, right? So I think my parents probably know me when I was in my 20s they know that version of me that version of me and I have changed so much. Now I am, I'm in my 40s and I've changed so much right. But you right, as a kid I get it as a parent, it almost freaks me out. Yeah. And I always tell my daughters you know, I'm always here for you. You can come to me always and I'm pretty sure they don't come to me for everything, which is fine.

Atheer Yacoub
Then you've raised them right to be self reliant and that's a good thing.

[Excerpt]

Atheer Yacoub
Nobody in Alabama knew where Palestine was or what it was so my mom would tell me oh just tell them you're from where Jesus is from and they're like oh Texas.

Saadia Khan
So why Denied Entry? How did this come about?I liked that you have this recurring throughline right, The No Fly List and Denied Entry.

Atheer Yacoub
Because we are being pushed out. We're being denied existence, denied entry. I'm Palestinian from the West Bank. I’m also landlocked, can’t go anywhere. You know, when I go there even though I was born in the US. I go there. I’m stripped completely of any American rights that I have and I'm treated like a Palestinian so I cannot go anywhere, cannot go into Israel. I'm denied entry cannot use their airports have to go through Jordan cross the border, and go through all that not even through the American side of the border of the Palestinian side. And it's fucked up. Because any Jewish person around the world can go there now and have more rights to that land than I do. My parents do who were born there prior to 1948. Prior to the existence of Israel, my dad was born in ’43. He's still alive. So imagine being born in a country that people come, settle in, colonize, genocide your people, and they're like, now you don't belong here. And you can't come here.

[Excerpt]
Atheer Yacoub
Hit on by Israeli men, like I was at a party and this Israeli guy was there. And he found out I was Palestinian, he got like, really turned on about it. And he was hitting on me and trying to get into my pants the whole night. But I turned him down. I had to because I wanted him to know what it feels like to be denied entry.

Saadia Khan
So these are small segments, like one minute, three minutes. Why did you choose that structure?

Atheer Yacoub
I don't know, if I chose that structure intentionally. Since I started doing comedy, that short form, it might be like the ADD person in me that's like, I can only stick to short form. And whenever I tell a story, it's just like long-winded and all over the place. But I do want to actually get to more storytelling, but I think because my jokes are like very much about the writing. And it's usually like short-form jokes. And I like kind of like the wordplay. And I like I just really fixate on certain words, rather than like the storytelling aspect. But I would like to do incorporate more longer-form storytelling. And I'm trying to be now a little bit more like loose and off the cuff and just tell the story as it is.

Saadia Khan
Between comedy and writing, do you have a preference?

Atheer Yacoub
Definitely doing stand up and stand up writing, but I also write scripts and stuff and trying to work on more of the narrative piece, because that's cool, too. It's just a different skill. And then the beauty of stand up is you can write something that day, go up, say it and see how it does. Okay, is it funny? Is it not? Of course, you have to give it multiple chances. But with a script, you know, I could spend hours and weeks writing something and I'm like, I have no idea if this is total garbage or people, like there's no immediate feedback. And comedy is the only art form where you're getting immediate feedback.

Saadia Khan
Whether your joke landed or not, have there been instances Atheer where it didn’t and how did you turn it around? Or what did you do?

Atheer Yacoub
Oh, all the time. I mean, you know, you get to throw a bunch of things at the wall and see what sticks and just like, shoot your shot as much as you can. And sometimes it's just because it's new, the joke will evolve. Like, you go back, you analyze and like you restructure, and you keep pruning away and try. And I think that's the beauty of it is that it’s not just one shot and you're done. You get to continually evolve the joke and work on it. So I liked that aspect of it a lot.

Saadia Khan
Do you have any favorite comedians?

Atheer Yacoub
I mean, I listen to Chappelle even though he’s said some crazy shit, although.

Saadia Khan
He has said some crazy shit. But you're right. He's funny.

Atheer Yacoub
I like David Cross because he has like a political humor. And he grew up Jewish and maybe Atlanta or Georgia. And so I relate to him a lot. He's one of the funniest people. I relate to him a lot as someone who grew up in the South as non-Christian. And so I've been listening to him for watching him for ages. I like Fortune Feimster. She also grew up in the South. I like Tig Notaro because she's very like deadpan. But there's so many amazing comedians like locally too, and like friends and people that I just generally enjoy that are not household names yet, but they will be.

Saadia Khan
You've mentioned South so many times and as a Muslim woman, I'm almost scared to go to Alabama, Tennessee, again going back to narratives that we have been fed. Now I don't know how true that is. And should I be scared or not? I feel like going anywhere outside New York seems like a chore to me right now.

Atheer Yacoub
You know also depends if you go to Birmingham, it’s a big metropolitan city no one's gonna like attack you.

Saadia Khan
It’s not that big, it’s what like 200,000 people or something.

Atheer Yacoub
Compared to the small towns in Alabama, they're like politely racist.

Saadia Khan
What is polite racism? Talk to me about that. I want to know.

Atheer Yacoub
That just like what are you? Like do you live in a sand dune? Do you get by by donkey? They're being offensive they they're also be polite to your face but hate you as a person or hate Muslims? Not maybe you specifically but because you're Muslim, but they'll still be nice to you. Which I'm like, at least in New York people are like to your face.

[Excerpt]
Atheer Yacoub
My building manager he's like this really hardcore Israeli guy like served in the army the whole thing and he keeps calling me Miss Yaakov, which is a Hebrew version of my last name. Yacoub, so I'm pretty sure that he thinks that I'm Jewish or Israeli and kind of awkward because I don't want to come out and tell him that I'm actually Palestinian. Because like, what if I come home one day and find him living in my apartment.

[Music]

Saadia Khan
Atheer, in the end, if you would describe the United States of America in a word or a sentence?  I know, I know. How would you do that?

Atheer Yacoub
The government? The people?

Saadia Khan
I’ll let you pick.

Atheer Yacoub
I mean, I think the government is fascist. The people are, it depends where like, I think people in the South who are racist are ignorant. Yeah, it's a lot of ignorance. And most people are not critical thinkers, most people in general. So they will believe whatever they're told, without fact checking without doing the reading. Because, you know, I wish people you know, were like, don't believe us, don't even read a book, please go to Palestine and see for yourself. But if you go there, and you go through the Israeli airport, and you tell them, you're going to the West Bank, they'll tell you not to go, it's for your own safety, don't do it. But if you just say, oh, you're there for tourism, and then you go to the West Bank, they don't want you to see the atrocities that they're committing. They don't want you to see for your own eyes. And so if you go and see it for yourself, I mean, please, by all means, like, don't believe me, just go see for your own self. So it's ignorance in a lot of ways why people feel the way they feel.

Saadia Khan
If there's anything, or any book that really resonates with you that you would recommend?

Atheer Yacoub
One of the first books that comes to mind is Rashid Khalidi The Hundred Year’s War on Palestine.

Saadia Khan
I’m reading that.

Atheer Yacoub
Yeah and then there was one by an Israeli author [Ilan Pappé] called The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.

Saadia Khan
At the end of the day, it's more about learning the facts and the history and the context, which I think we should all do, irrespective of what we believe in on how we approach this issue and how invested or not invested, we are in this right?

Atheer Yacoub
And it's not complicated. They keep saying that, so that it deters people from reading for themselves. But even if you've never read anything, people who consider themselves liberals, you know, they'll be like, yeah, Black Lives Matter. They’ll be for the Native Americans, let's do land acknowledgement. But these people are all like also standing up with us, the Global South, and anyone who has been oppressed and been subjugated to these same conditions, like understand, but they see it from our perspective, do you not see like the same thing like segregation, South Africa, apartheid, like, this has happened over and over and over? This is a cycle of colonialism, cycle of abuse, it's not anything new. It's nothing new. They didn't reinvent the wheel.

Saadia Khan
Yeah but that's what I was going to say, look, I feel America first has to reconcile with its own history of Native American genocide. America is not prepped to understand the nuance or to think critically, because of lack of information about its own history. And a lot of times people like us who come from all these different countries, we've in some shape, or form been part of some conflict. I grew up in the 80s and 90s in Pakistan, and the spillover from Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a reality for us, my mother would not take us to the bazaar or anywhere because she thought there would be a bomb blast and we would die we were living in Peshawar at the time.

So I think maybe start there and see how do we reconcile with the US history?

And then I think it will become easier for people to see oppression and colonialism in other parts of the world. Because if you are yourself settlers, how do you reconcile with somebody else's history?

Anyways, thank you for coming on Immigrantly for speaking your mind, I am so grateful.

And hopefully people can find your comedy Denied Entry on Spotify. Where else can people find you?

Atheer Yacoub
If you just follow me on Instagram, it's just my full name @atheeryacoub then you'll see links to shows and anything else coming up. Also a lot of Palestine stuff. So if you want to learn about that, go to my page.

Saadia Khan
Thank you.

Atheer Yacoub
Thank you for having me.

[Immigrantly music]

Saadia Khan
You know, Atheer is right. I am sick and tired of justifying my humanity, or to make other people comfortable around my thoughts. Our goal through this podcast is to recognize the humanity in everyone. It's a platform for safe conversations about people who are marginalized or oppressed who don’t get platforms to talk about as much. I know this conversation may not resonate with some, it may make others angry. It may be an uncomfortable inconvenient truth, but I really encourage everybody to pause. Think about it. Ruminate, read, explore, be curious about history. What makes us strong as humans is curiosity. What makes us strong as humans is empathy and humanity, collective humanity above everything else.

This episode was produced by me, and written by Pippa Tsuki Carlson and me. The editorial review was done by Shei Yu. Our sound designer for this episode is by Paroma Chakravarty. Immigrantly’s theme music is by Simon Hutchinson.

Until next time, take care. Be kind to yourself and to others.