Ep 227 Unveiling Media Storm: Boldly Amplifying Unheard Voices
Saadia Khan 0:05
Hello and welcome to Immigrantly, a podcast that amplifies diverse voices fully and unapologetically I am Saadia Khan. And I am in awe of all of you will come back every week to listen to what I have to say, to appreciate our platform. Without your support, there would be no Immigrantly. So thank you so much for being here for sharing this space with me and listening to what I have to say. If you want to know more about Immigrantly and hear from our team, do sign up for our newsletter. You will love it, I promise.
Saadia Khan 0:48
So it's June already. It's also Immigrant Heritage Month. A lot of you know that I am an immigrant and I wanted to share a story with you today. So when I arrived in the US two decades ago, I didn't consider myself an immigrant. Instead, I thought I would eventually return to my home country. And I know a lot of immigrants think they will go back. Right? But a lot of us don't. And that happened to me as well. Little did I know that life had a different plan for me. And in a blink of an eye, when I decided to stay in the US I became an immigrant, a word that is sometimes othered in American culture, and I'm pretty sure it's true for immigrants living in the UK as well.
Saadia Khan 1:39
It took me a while to fully accept and embrace my immigrant identity because others were so eager to villainize and you know, what, what I've realized is what a privilege it is to navigate through different cultures and experience their beauty and idiosyncrasies contrary to what the mainstream media and even politicians might want you to believe immigrants are not a monolithic group. We all know that, right? We come from all walks of life with diverse backgrounds and aspirations. We are doctors, engineers, entrepreneurs, cab drivers, small business owners, content creators, poets, authors, you name it, we are risk takers, for sure. And sometimes we even assert agency through our vulnerability.
Saadia Khan 2:31
Now I know a lot of us leave behind everything familiar to experience, adventurers chase dreams and create opportunities. We enrich the tapestry that is American society with our culture, accents, language, thinking food, and so much more. And here's the thing. I diversity is a strength that really propels America forward and without immigrants, America would be a sad place. So let's celebrate the power of dual identities today and forever and embrace the richness of understanding and appreciating different backgrounds.
Saadia Khan 3:16
Now, if you want to give us a gift during Immigrant Heritage Month, just write a nice review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or if you are on social media, follow us on Instagram at Immigrantly pod or on Twitter @Immigrantly_pod. You can also follow me on Twitter @swkkhan.
Saadia Khan 3:52
Anyways, talking about celebrating different identities and backgrounds. Today I am Zooming to the UK to speak with Helena Waadia, a London-based freelance journalist and a fellow podcaster. Yes, London-based. I am so excited to gain some perspective from outside the US context. And I want to say hello and welcome to everyone listening in London right now. And if you are tuning in for the first time do come back next week to listen to more conversations.
Saadia Khan 4:28
Anyways. Helena's journalism has been featured on multiple outlets including Evening Standard, MME, BBC Channel Five News and London Live. As for any of my US listeners who are unfamiliar with those outlets, don't worry, you can dive into Helena's journalistic spirit through her podcast, Media Storm, one of the things I'm most looking forward to chatting with her about today.
Saadia Khan 4:58
Now Media Storm follows Helena and her co-host Matilda Melanson as they deep dive into current affairs and underreported stories within minority communities. The podcast tagline alone was enough to draw me in. And I'll quote for you. It says: a news podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last.
Saadia Khan 5:25
Isn't that incredible? And so true.
Saadia Khan 5:28
For today's episode, I am really hoping to get to know Helena a little more, explore the immigrant experience on a different continent, and dig into what it means to be an ethical journalist. So let's get started.
Saadia Khan 6:07
Hi, Helena. Welcome to Immigrantly.
Helena Wadia 6:10
Hello!
Saadia Khan 6:11
You're based in UK, right?
Helena Wadia 6:13
Yes, exactly in London.
Saadia Khan 6:15
So hello to all our listeners in London. And if this is your first time tuning in, do come back.
Saadia Khan 6:23
I'm so excited to be doing this. So tell me you write about other people's stories. I was in fact listening to your podcast Media Storm in the morning latest episode, in fact, and I was at the gym, listening to this very, very interesting, engaging conversation around cannabis and criminalization of chronic pain. And I do have questions about that.
Saadia Khan 6:49
But first, Helena, I want to know more about you. Who is Helena Wadia? Let's start there.
Helena Wadia 6:56
What a big question to start with. I'm not even sure where to start.
Helena Wadia 7:01
I've lived most of my life in London. I was born in Hong Kong, actually, of all places. Yeah, and I am culturally, Parsi, I'm not sure I always say that. When I say I'm Parsi, I'm like, Who knows about the Parsi community because we're all we're so small now. So I often think, who really knows about the Parsi community. But essentially, for those people who don't know, the way I put it is, it's an Iranian heritage, but with an Indian culture.
Saadia Khan 7:29
Right.
Helena Wadia 7:29
Round about the 10th century, the Parsis were pushed out of Iran, Persia as it was then. And they settled in India and East Africa, mostly. So yeah, I'm completely Parsi, both my parents, and I suppose they've lived a kind of life sort of bridging a very British culture, because that's where I grew up with reconciling that with my heritage. And I've always been interested in people's stories, where they come from, who they are, what makes them tick, what they care about. And I think that's the reason why I wanted to become a journalist. I've been doing that now for gosh, nearly 10 years, I'd say.
Saadia Khan 8:09
Helena, talk to me about your heritage, which I assume is South Asian. And on Immigrantly, we talk a lot about what it means to be South Asian in America in the US.
Saadia Khan 8:22
But I'm curious to know, what does it mean to be South Asian in the UK? What are some of the cultural influences of dominant culture? What was it like growing up in London?
Helena Wadia 8:34
It's a great question. Because I think for a long time, I wouldn't have been able to answer that question. Because my father was a first generation immigrant. So he came over to the UK when he was a late teenager. And I think for him, in order to be successful, I think he felt like he had to integrate. And so along with that integration, when he married my mom, and he had me and my sister, I think that it was quite difficult for us to connect with our culture and our heritage completely, because he gave us English names. You know, my name is Helena. In fact, my name full name is Helena Rose. I mean, doesn't the most classically English name. And a lot of the time, I suppose I felt disconnected from my heritage because I was growing up with a very British experience. Now, of course, you can never be completely disconnected because I think what it means to be British Asian, I think it was something that began to be celebrated as I got a bit older, and there are certain areas of London specifically that have that are full of British Asians, and that would be South Hall, Wembley, Ealing, Hounslow, and I had a lot of family that lived in places like that. And so when I got to visit those places, all of that culture came to light I've and I have slowly over the years began to see it as a great strength and a big part of me rather than something that I needed to push away and integrate into, you know, wider British culture.
Saadia Khan 10:14
How does your dad see that transition that shift in you embracing your South Asian heritage? Does he have any thoughts on it?
Helena Wadia 10:23
I think you'd have to ask him. He does. To be honest, you know, I actually think a huge part of me re embracing that South Asian culture was when I met my now fiance, who is Hindu. And I see how his family I think, perfectly bridge both being British and being Asian. And I think, yeah, I learned to celebrate that part of myself again when I met him.
Saadia Khan 10:49
Talk to me about when you were in school. Now, I remember interviewing another guest from London. And she mentioned something that really blew my mind away. She told me that in the UK, kids are not taught about British colonialism. And what happened in South Asia. Is that true? That is true.
Helena Wadia 11:10
Look, it may be different now. Because I left school, I'm turning 30 this year. So it's been a while ago, it may be different now. But we actually did the history of India in school. I think for my A-Level History. I think we did it. And I don't think the word colonialism came up once.
Saadia Khan 11:29
Why do you think that is the case?
Helena Wadia 11:31
In British schools, in particular, I think it is absolutely fair to say that they have rewritten history.
Helena Wadia 11:40
And they may not have done it purposefully, although they may have. However, I think it is completely fair to say that they view history through their lens, they view it through their experience. And their experience was that what they did in India was fantastic. And they bought modernity and the new life to India. And it's funny because if you speak to some British Asians of an older generation, say my grandparents, they actually think colonialism was pretty great, too.
Saadia Khan 12:13
That's so surprising.
Helena Wadia 12:15
It's very surprising. But when you are given essentially one version of history, your whole life. And that version is that look how brilliantly they bought things to India. Look how they built up the railways. Look how they did this, we were bought into the 21st century by them, there's no other way of viewing it, you're not going to get that other side. It's very interesting. But it doesn't surprise me.
Saadia Khan 12:39
This is so interesting, because just by sheer numbers when the British went to India, one of the richest areas in the world and when they left, it was one of the poorest nations in the world. Doesn't that tell us a whole lot about what happened there? Do you think people are blindsided or they ignore the history because it's convenient?
Helena Wadia 13:03
I think so. I remember in, I think it was in 2021, the school's minister rejected compulsory lessons about the Empire and the slave trade, claiming that they would risk lowering standards, which is a really shocking sentence, really. This, by the way, came off the back of a petition that was signed by nearly 270,000 people that was condemning the curriculum, and it was about failing to teach students about Britain's role in colonialization. And also Britain's shame during the slave trade. And I think the call was just completely thrown out. And I think by the lowering standards common, I think what he was he was saying was that, oh, you know, we don't want to pile on more topics for our children. We don't want them to, you know, have to learn even more like the curriculum is tough enough as it is, it is part of this culture that is in British politics at the moment where everything is politicized. Every small issue is politicized. And it is polarized, the only way of viewing things is in very binary terms. Are you on the right wing? Or are you on the left wing and everything in between is ignored. It's not shocking enough. It's not clickbaity enough?
Saadia Khan 14:21
It's very similar to what's happening in the US, right, but does diversity in terms of seeing a South Asian prime minister or a South Asian Mayor of London make a difference? Do you think diversity in terms of numbers or optics is good enough?
Helena Wadia 14:40
I think when there was a South Asian, in particular Muslim Mayor, elected in Sadiq Khan. I do think that changed a lot of people's opinions. You know, Sadiq Khan withstood huge amounts and still does to this day huge amounts of racism and vitriol directed towards him. Islamophobia in particular. And I think that even now you see tweets saying it's become Londonstan, right, and just really horrible things directed against him. However, representation for representation sake is not enough. Yes, we have a South Asian Prime Minister, I'm sure for many, many years people didn't think that was ever going to happen. But we also have a prime minister, who is choosing to demonize transgender people, right, and is one of the richest people who wants to scrap inheritance tax, you know, where you have to look at things in their context. We had a home secretary in Priti Patel, who implemented one of the harshest, harshest hostile environment policies under which I don't think her own family would have been able to come to the UK.
Saadia Khan 15:53
Wow.
Helena Wadia 15:53
So representation itself...it's not enough.
Saadia Khan 15:57
So Hellena talked to me about true representation, what does true representation look like to you?
Helena Wadia 16:03
To me, I think true representation is not just diversity, it’s diversity and inclusion. That means and I'll put it in terms of something that I've experienced myself in a journalism newsroom. So when people say, we've got a diverse newsroom, you have to look at where that diversity is. Is that diversity? A couple of people of color, who are interns at the bottom being paid minimum wage? Or is that diversity? Somebody at the top somebody who is making editorial decisions? So we're talking about decision makers, right? Decision makers, change makers, and people who are can be in positions of understanding, it's not enough to just arrange diversity training, and then wash your hands off the issue, nothing is going to really change until diversity is top of the priority list. And until people really care and want to do the work, and they don't just want to tick a box.
Saadia Khan 16:59
You're absolutely right. But it also matters what values those decision-makers hold, right? Going back to South Asian Prime Minister, Rishi Sunuk, he is a decision-maker, he is in a position of power, and yet he's making decisions that are probably going to be extremely harmful for minority groups in the UK. So we have to not just look at representation, diversity, decision-makers, but also what values they hold, right? What would you prefer a Prime Minister who comes from a minority community, but doesn't believe in certain values that will help and grow those communities versus a Prime Minister who is not from a minority community, but believes in values that will help minorities thrive?
Helena Wadia 17:50
I think always somebody who believes in values that will help minorities thrive, because I think, you know, it is interesting, as you said, Rishi Sunak is a decision maker. However, I do think that the people of color who were on the right, a lot of the ways that they have got to the top is by essentially throwing their own communities and other minority communities under the bus.
Saadia Khan 18:15
Right.
Helena Wadia 18:15
And yes, Rishi Sunak is part of a minority community, but he's also part of a huge majority of rich men who run the country.
Saadia Khan 18:25
Helena, talk to me about your work. Now, when I look at my work at Immigrantly, most of my activism is driven by frustration with narrow minded depictions of minorities and people of color, right? I started the podcast because I felt not just Muslim, but people of color were not being represented the way they should be in mainstream media, they still aren't. How do you face or confront those biases or problematic depictions of minority communities in journalism in your career? What do you do if you see that problematic depiction of a person from minority community?
Helena Wadia 19:09
So I think to answer that question, I'll tell you a little bit about how Media Storm, my podcast started.
Helena Wadia 19:14
And that's because I was working full time in a mainstream media newsroom in the UK at a newspaper that is extremely popular. It's technically not on the right or not on the left. It says it's centrist. But I think at some point, it has had right leanings. Let's put it that way.
Helena Wadia 19:33
I was working in that newsroom. But this is not specific to that newsroom. In every job in the mainstream media. I've had started to notice that the people who are spoken about the most have rarely ever spoken to. And what happened is, I was working in this mainstream media newsroom with my now co host Matilda and Matilda specializes in humanitarian journalism. So she has worked a lot lot with refugees with people who've been displaced. And during the time that we were working together, Matilda said, I've noticed that we, as a company have put out 40 articles this week about what was dubbed then the so called migrant crisis. And that is a phrase that continues to still come up. What they mean by that is refugees getting in unsafe dinghies and crossing the Channel and arriving at British shores. And in not one of those articles had we spoken to a single person who had lived experience a single person who had crossed the Channel themselves not once had we asked them, Why did you do that? What made you risk your life to have to do that to come to the UK?
Helena Wadia 20:43
It was a point that, you know, I've thought of many, many times before in different contexts. In the UK, we have a very hostile environment for transgender people in the mainstream media. And I had picked up on that, that transgender people were spoken about all the time in the mainstream media, but never spoken to. And we started to sort of make a list of these groups of people. And that developed into us leaving our jobs and starting this podcast. So what we say is that media storm is a news podcast. And it starts with the people who are usually asked last, right, whether that be refugees, migrants, sex workers, people who have been in prison, transgender people, people who smoke cannabis for their chronic pain, these people are always spoken about, but they don't get their right of reply. And a right of reply is one of the main pillars of journalism.
Helena Wadia 21:38
It's missing. And so we're trying to restore that.
Saadia Khan 21:41
Helena, talk to me about why these people don't get asked in mainstream media ecosystem? Do you think it's deliberate?
Helena Wadia 21:51
I think there's a few reason why.
Helena Wadia 21:52
I think journalists are incredibly time pressed. Social media means that news spreads instantaneously. And journalists have to compete with that, to keep up with it. And they want their coverage to be seen versus somebody else's coverage, which then you know, leads into click baity headlines, and they're trying to all compete with each other. And like when you're in a newsroom, and your editor saying, quick, get that story out quick, do this quick do that. Maybe you feel like you don't have time to approach a refugee, for example.
Helena Wadia 22:24
And over time, this has just become the norm to do so digital reporters, they often have no choice but to recycle press releases and tweets as headlines. And what they're not doing is venturing outside of the newsroom as much as reporters used to and seeking out voices that don't readily present themselves. And then I think there's also that because these communities rarely get the right of reply. What it has created is that they are skeptical of the media.
Helena Wadia 22:52
You know, we found this when trying to do many episodes. When we were doing our episode about sex work, and we wanted to speak to sex workers, a lot of them didn't want to speak to us at first because they thought, oh, here we go again. Am I going to be put up against somebody who is very anti sex work? And am I going to be dragged? And am I going to be made out to be like, dirty and a terrible person? And it was only after trying to get their trust and speaking to them? And saying, No, listen, we really want to platform your voices. And don't worry, we're not going to oppose you with somebody who's on the complete other end of the spectrum, who has no lived experience. And we're not going to stick you in a room and make you debate each other.
Saadia Khan 23:34
Talking about your podcast, it is a great mix of great information and humor. How do you strike that balance?
Helena Wadia 23:43
That's so great to hear you say that because I think that's what we've been what the we've been desperate to do.
Helena Wadia 23:49
I think when we came up with the structure that was key to kind of striking that balance. So the first half of every episode is an investigation and that sort of either Mathilda or I out on the road. And we speak to many, many different people. And we tried to make it as immersive as possible so that people feel like they're really on the road with us trying to, you know, get to the heart of an issue.
Helena Wadia 24:13
And then the second half of the episode, we're back in the studio, and we're joined by a guest who has lived experience in that issue. And they often have worked in the mainstream media themselves as well. And in that section, we speak about what the media can be doing better to report on this certain minority community. And in that section, what we do is we look at headlines, we sort of roast these headlines that have come up in recent weeks. And I think that's when we thought we could really bring some humor into this. And that is truly because it is laughable. Like it's awful, but it's also laughable some of these headlines the tabloid presses in particular come out with sometimes they're so awful that all you can do is laugh
Saadia Khan 25:01
Share a few headlines that you thought were so absurd that you couldn't even believe what you were reading.
Helena Wadia 25:08
Oh my goodness, one from one of our most recent episodes really stands out to me. The episode was on domestic abuse and what the media can be doing to report better on domestic abuse and all the pitfalls that it falls into. And there's one headline from a newspaper called The Times wrote an entire article about the violent man and his character. And then in the last two paragraphs, spoke about his fiancee who he murdered and the headline was "Disbelief At 'Kind And Gentle' Fiance Linked To Murder of Primary School Teacher Marelle Sturrock." Now, the paper was calling a man who murdered his fiancee, kind and gentle.
Saadia Khan 25:54
All my gosh, yes. And may I know why they thought he was kind and gentle.
Helena Wadia 26:01
So this whole article fell into a massive pitfall that the media often falls into when reporting on domestic abuse, where they go into how could this have happened, what could have possibly made this lovely man who doted on his wife murder her, and they forget to include the context of domestic abuse, which is that it can be hidden, which is that most murders are very charming, which is that most women are killed by a partner or intimate partner and not by a stranger.
Saadia Khan 26:32
Right.
Helena Wadia 26:33
And what they do is they leave out all the context and instead just print all the nice things that friends and neighbors have said about this man, without realizing that friends and neighbors may be entirely unfamiliar with the reality of the situation.
Saadia Khan 26:48
Same person can have a very different relationship with his spouse partner races, neighbors, family, mom, dad.
Helena Wadia 26:58
Exactly. Abuse is by its nature hidden.
Saadia Khan 27:01
Right.
Helena Wadia 27:02
And the media fails to report that and fails to get people to understand that.
Saadia Khan 27:09
So Helena, if you were to write a headline for this article, what would you write?
Helena Wadia 27:14
So I work with an organization in the UK called Level Up. And what level up have done is they have developed media guidelines for reporting on fatal domestic abuse. They have an acronym, it's called AIDA. And it stands for accountability, images, dignity, and accuracy.
Helena Wadia 27:32
So you have to make sure you're including all of those four things when you report on domestic abuse.
Helena Wadia 27:37
So in this case, to be honest, I don't think I would have written this article.
Saadia Khan 27:41
Why?
Helena Wadia 27:41
Because this article was just about the murderer’s character, what reports on domestic abuse should be is a memorial for the victim, not propaganda for the perpetrator.
Helena Wadia 27:52
So I would have written about her, I would have written about whether she was kind or gentle what her friends thought about her and what her family thought about her. And what she did as her job. And I would have also put a photo of her, you know, the photo was of them together. And I find that incredibly jarring to have a woman pictured next to the man who murdered her. And you have to put yourself in the shoes of the family of the victim when you're reporting on things like this, because it's not a case anymore. That news is tomorrow's chip paper. News is forever now, because it's online forever. So if it's online forever, it should be a memorial for the victim.
Helena Wadia 27:52
That's such a beautiful thing to say. And I never thought of it that way.
Saadia Khan 28:42
Talk to me about all the different topics that you've covered so far. So you've covered immigration, sex work, minority rights. Is there something that stands out to you something that you were surprised by something that challenged your preconceived notions about an issue or a community or an identity for that matter?
Helena Wadia 29:05
What always jumps to my mind is an episode we did on STIs: sexually transmitted infections. There were many things I think that challenged my preconceived ideas, but a huge one was that I did the investigation on HPV. HPV is the human papillomavirus, and it has more than 100 different strains. Some strains of the virus can cause genital warts, some can cause abnormal cell changes that can lead to cancer, and it's usually cervical cancer, and that's what people think of when they think of HPV right?
Helena Wadia 29:40
So you may know that HPV causes cervical cancer and you might have noticed a huge drive to get women vaccinated for what a lot of people didn't know. And maybe you know, I didn't really know myself is that men can also get HPV and can pass HPV on and are at risk of cancer.
Helena Wadia 30:00
Pineal cancer, anal cancer and throat cancers, when I found this out, I thought, why on earth don't we talk about this? And why on earth isn't there a huge drive to get men vaccinated as well?
Helena Wadia 30:12
So I think that was something that really blew my mind. And in that episode, I heard from men who were living with the effects of HPV, and also the men who have used their experiences to change the vaccination process for boys and men. It's been a long battle with with the UK Government, because essentially, to them, it's not really a cost effective thing to do, because not as many men get HPV as women do.
Helena Wadia 30:39
And then I think something that also challenged my preconceptions in that episode was speaking to our studio guests. That episode was a wonderful educator, broadcaster, writer called Alex Fox. And she was actually a script consultant on the Netflix show, Sex Education. I don't know if you've seen it.
Saadia Khan 31:01
I haven't seen the show, but I've heard of it.
Helena Wadia 31:04
And it's actually a really, really good show for getting facts across in a humorous and, you know, dramatic way. And she was, yeah, script consultant on that, essentially, to make sure that everything about STIs in those episodes is factually accurate. And speaking to her was so interesting, because there's just no holds barred with her.
Helena Wadia 31:25
So-
Saadia Khan 31:25
She just talked about everything.
Helena Wadia 31:28
And very openly. And I think growing up, we really did demonize STIs and demonize people with STIs. And it was really, really shameful.
Helena Wadia 31:40
If you knew someone who had one, or people would just make jokes about it, you know, like, did he give you chlamydia? Have they got chlamydia? He's so gross. And you know, we wouldn't be able to have even said the words genital warts without laughing, you know, our education around sex and consent and relationships was truly terrible. And so to have somebody, you know, years later come in and talk about all those things openly and without any shame was actually very healing,
Saadia Khan 32:10
I think, how has that reframed conversations around sex for you?
Helena Wadia 32:15
I don't know if it's the same in America, but British sex education. Oh, my God, it is a terrible. You know, I think I went through school without the word consent ever being mentioned.
Saadia Khan 32:28
I'm not surprised. But no, yeah, I think probably US sex education doesn't have the term either.
Helena Wadia 32:33
Exactly. I mean, all we heard about was like, don't get pregnant, don't get pregnant, use a condom don't get pregnant. And absolutely nothing really about STIs unless it was in a derogatory way.
Helena Wadia 32:46
Absolutely nothing about consent.
Saadia Khan 32:49
Right.
Helena Wadia 32:49
And nothing about pleasure. Oh, my God, it was reproducing, oh, no, there, don't get me wrong. There was a bit of male pleasure, but nothing on female.
Helena Wadia 32:57
So I think it's been very exciting in a way to reframe all those conversations that maybe my younger self has needed, you know, also, we did an episode on abortion. And that was at the time that Roe vs. Wade was overturned. I mean, that's one of our most listened to episodes, because I think we don't realize how much it affects other people. The guests we had on Renee Bracey Sherman, she's American. And she said to us, everybody loves somebody who has had an abortion. And I think we don't realize how common it is.
Saadia Khan 33:31
That's true.
Helena Wadia 33:32
And again, at school, it was only ever brought up in like an ethical debate kind of way. And it was always really scary. The concept of abortion was really scary. It was really terrifying, and was only ever seen as like a last resort if something awful had happened to you if you've been assaulted, or you know, it was never framed as something that like, now you have a choice, whether or not you want a baby.
Saadia Khan 33:57
Exactly.
Helena Wadia 33:58
And so all these conversations have been reframed through the podcast, and it's been a learning experience for us. But also, hopefully, for all of our listeners, you know, we've had some amazing responses where people have said, god, you know what, you really changed my mind on that. And that's not us, by the way, like, We're not the ones changing the mind. It's the people with lived experience that we talked to, and they're not doing anything crazy. They're just talking about their experience. And it's actually shocking. When you think that's all we really need. Like, that's such a simple thing. Somebody's coming on and talking about their experiences, and there's no agenda, you know, and there's no political leaning, and there's no binary debate. It's just someone saying their experiences, and it's quite simple.
Saadia Khan 34:43
You're absolutely right. A lot of times people have agency but they don't have platforms where they can express it, and you're giving them that platform to have those authentic conversations. It's as simple as that.
Saadia Khan 34:55
Helena, are there any interesting topics that you are going to explore on your podcast in the future that you're really excited about?
Helena Wadia 35:04
So coming up on Series Three, we are doing an episode on striking and unions and organizing workers.
Helena Wadia 35:12
And the reason that we picked that topic is because currently in the UK, we're in a period of mass striking, so railway workers are striking.
Helena Wadia 35:22
Teachers are striking nurses, the striking junior doctors are striking. And people are demanding fairer pay in line with inflation, because inflation has gone up considerably recently in the UK.
Helena Wadia 35:35
We're in a massive, huge cost of living crisis, people are demanding better working hours, people are demanding better working conditions. And what we have seen is a really polarized response to striking workers.
Helena Wadia 35:51
So we have seen a response where members of the public are interviewed on the news, and they're saying, oh, it's so inconvenient, you know, how dare the strikers strike on the day of this big football match? Or the day of Eurovision? How dare the strikers do that? They're just trying to make our lives miserable.
Helena Wadia 36:09
And we haven't had reporters pushing back and saying, hey, why do you think why do you think people are striking? You know, we haven't really had anybody asking that question.
Helena Wadia 36:20
So much so that we all as a collective public seem to have forgotten that strikes are meant to be disruptive. That is the point of them. Like, that is literally your point. And don't get me wrong. Of course, I have been frustrated when the trains have been off when I haven't been able to get somewhere on time.
Saadia Khan 36:38
But that's what mobilization looks like.
Helena Wadia 36:41
Exactly. I mean, genuinely, I think we have forgotten and we have seen reporting that has been like so and so hasn't been able to get to visit their dying mother in hospital because of the strikers. But if you really think about it, is it because of the strikers? Or is it because the government isn't paying them a fair wage.
Saadia Khan 37:01
Right.
Helena Wadia 37:02
So in our upcoming episode, we're not only going to try and reframe that by asking strikers about their experiences, and why they felt the need to strike and what has happened to them. And, you know, how are they coping with the cost of living, but we're also going to look a little bit of the history of striking in the UK so that people are going to be able to answer the question, what would have the unions ever done for me?
Helena Wadia 37:27
Turns out just from my initial research, a hell of a lot: maternity pay, paternity pay, weekends, paid leave, equal pay for women, although obviously, we're not quite there yet. You know, they've done a hell of a lot for us. And I think it's important to put that narrative back into the media.
Saadia Khan 37:45
You're absolutely right. And at least in the US, the way I see it, ownership is sacrosanct. Right? So the rights of owner or employers trumped the rights of employees. In fact, employees rights are stripped at the expense of that.
Saadia Khan 38:01
So I totally see why people would push back because of the narrative that they are fed in mainstream media and otherwise, and how they are made to act against their own well being. They are made to think that unions are bad striking is bad mobilization is terrible, so that they don't mobilize and they don't make coalition's and demand rights.
Helena Wadia 38:27
Exactly.
Saadia Khan 38:28
So it would be a fascinating episode to listen to.
Saadia Khan 38:30
Helena, in the end, I normally ask my guests to define America in the US in a word or a sentence, but this time I want to talk about the UK. If you could define UK in a word, sentence, phrase, how would you do that?
Helena Wadia 38:48
Currently, I think I would say struggling.
Saadia Khan 38:52
Struggling in what ways?
Helena Wadia 38:53
I think at some point soon the UK is going to need a reckoning, it's going to have to address its past, present and future.
Helena Wadia 39:02
And I think you know, I want to be in a situation where I can say, Oh, I'm so proud to be British. You know, there are many reasons why I do feel proud to be British. But I think so many of them are trumped by the way that the UK treats many minority groups. And I think it is struggling to reconcile its own past. It's struggling to be honest.
Helena Wadia 39:25
Oh dear, one thing Britain does is it struggles to admit when it's wrong.
Saadia Khan 39:29
I think US is the same. So they are pretty similar in that sense.
Helena Wadia 39:33
But I think the phrase that I want to describe Britain as is: always raining, but sunny at heart.
Helena Wadia 39:40
I wish I could do that. But I don't think we can quite say that yet. But maybe soon we'll be able to.
Saadia Khan 39:45
I really liked that description and that analogy.
Saadia Khan 39:48
Where can people find your podcast?
Helena Wadia 39:50
So you can find our podcast wherever you get your podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google, Acast. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok and Twitter @mediastormpod.
Saadia Khan 40:03
Thank you so much, Helena. This was wonderful.
Helena Wadia 40:05
Thank you so much for having me.
Saadia Khan 40:08
Well, how did you like the episode?
Saadia Khan 40:11
I, by the way, loved it. And it's always so good to have a different perspective, a perspective that is outside the US. I also discovered a lot of similarities between the US and the UK for one, both countries are unwilling to reconcile with their history of colonialism, genocide, racism, and sometimes I wish, what will it take for the two nations to reconcile with that history, to face those inconvenient truths, and to make amends?
Saadia Khan 40:51
Anyways, this episode was produced by me Saadia Khan, written by Michaela Strauther, and me. Our editorial review was done by Shei Yu. Our editor is Haziq Ahmed Farid and the music for Immigrantly is done by Simon Hutchinson. Come back next week when you have another incredible story to tell.