Ep 228 Laughs, Characters, and Artistic Roots: Getting Real with Lucie Pohl
Saadia Khan 0:05
Hello, I am Saadia Khan and welcome to Immigrantly, a weekly podcast that is creating powerful stories around a diverse immigrant experience. Why is it essential you may ask? Well, among other things, we know that during the next presidential cycle, 45 million immigrants will face relentless targeting, vilification, and dehumanization, while a large part of the country remains silent.
Saadia Khan 0:33
Trump's promise to overturn birthright citizenship is just the start of this dangerous trend. That this time, we are prepared to fight back, reclaim our stories and debunk parental stereotypes. So, please help us spread the word by sharing our stories and work with family and friends. Maybe give us a five star review and engage with us so that we know we are making a positive impact in your lives.
Saadia Khan 1:05
Click on the links to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and just give us a thumbs up or if you're feeling exceptionally generous, subscribe to our Patreon. You can find links on our Instagram. And today's story is yet another example of how we uplift and celebrate unique immigrant identities. I have the wonderfully funny Lucie Pohl on the show. She's a voice actor for the hero Mercy in the massively popular video game Overwatch. She's a comedian that did a show titled "Hi, Hitler" a few years ago at an Off Broadway theater and is related to famous playwright Bertolt Brecht. She interviewed me on her podcast Immigrant Jam a few weeks back, and I'm so happy to bring her to my own podcast this time around.
Saadia Khan 2:00
In that episode, by the way, we talked a lot about letting people tell their stories, what it means to ask, Where are you from? And what is home? In this episode, I want to get deeper into who Lucie is behind the work that she does. So let's get started.
Saadia Khan 2:41
Lucie, welcome to Immigrantly.
Lucie Pohl 2:43
Thank you.
Saadia Khan 2:44
So excited to have you here. So when I was on your podcast, we talked about home and where are you from question. I will start by asking you to tell me your story. Because I think there's always something exciting and unique about human stories. So we'll start there.
Lucie Pohl 3:07
All right. So yeah, I was born in Hamburg, Germany, which is in the north of Germany, a port city. And I was born there to a Romanian Jewish mother and a German father. And then when I was eight, we moved to New York City. My parents wanted to come and spend like half a year maybe a year here. My dad's a playwright and an actor, writer, my mom is a singer, and at that point, was also directing theater. And they thought that they would just come for a year and spend some of the money that they had made. You know how it is with artists, they make money, and then they're like, We got to get rid of this. And yeah, we moved to Soho to Green Street in the 90s. And then a year turned into, you know, 30 years now. And my parents fell in love with New York. My mother is Romanian. But when she was 14, they moved from Romania to East Germany, they moved there a week before the wall was built. So they were kind of trapped. So she spent her like adolescent formative adult years in East Germany and wasn't allowed to travel and everything American was obviously forbidden. And so America was always I think, this big question mark to her. And so she didn't get to go to New York until I think 90, 1990, or 91, and fell in love and said, I want to live here for a little bit. And then my dad is from Bavaria, and his family was also displaced because of the war. And they were sort of refugees from East Prussia in Bavaria. So outsiders, Bavaria is a very strong culture of its own. And so they were sort of considered outsiders there. And I think my parents both always felt like outsiders in Germany in general, the fact that my mom's Jewish, you know, contributes to that of course, as well. And then they came to New York and they fell in love and found a home.
Saadia Khan 4:58
Tell me, Lucie, when you came at the age of eight. How did your immigrant identity inform how you saw New York City or America in general? Because you were so young? Was it part of your consciousness? Were you even able to comprehend what was happening at the time?
Lucie Pohl 5:16
Well, I didn't want to move at all. My sister four years older than me really wanted to move was excited. And I was kicking and screaming, like I had my little friend group. And, you know, I felt kind of comfortable in Hamburg, and I really didn't want to move. And my dad always tells a story. He says that I said to him, How can I live in New York? I don't speak English. And he said, Well, you're going to learn and I said, no, that's crazy. I'm not going to learn. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. How can I learn English? And then we made a bet. And then he was like, Okay, if I win, you have to, like, do this thing. And then I said, if I win, you have to get me a game for my Gameboy. I'm dating myself now. Well, I already said 90, so it's fine.
Lucie Pohl 5:55
And then he says that about half a year after we moved here, you know, I picked up English within like, three, four months, I came to him and I said, Dad, I just wanted to say thank you for not lying to me, because I learned English. And so I'll never forget the first day of school we were I was late because we got to school and I didn't have the right vaccines. And so they said, you have to go to a doctor now and get these vaccines otherwise, you can't start your first day of school. So we like ran. I remember running across Washington Square Park to this doctor and getting these vaccines and I was wearing this bright red dress. I'll never forget any of this. It's like so burned into my memory. And then I I'll never forget standing in the classroom, fourth grade, everybody staring at me. And then the teacher, Mr. Kutner, started writing on the blackboard and said, This is how we write our sevens here. Because in Europe, you write the seven with the line through the like stem of the seven.
Saadia Khan 6:54
So was he addressing you specifically?
Lucie Pohl 6:56
Yes, yes. This is how we write our sevens here.
Saadia Khan 6:59
That's intense.
Lucie Pohl 7:00
It was, I couldn't really understand it. But I remember him just like drawing the seven say like, not like this like this without the line through the stem. And then I remember this boy with really blond hair and a plaid shirt and braces. Nobody had braces in Germany. And I remember his like, smile. And he said, Hi. And I was like, Oh my God, these Americans, you know. And then after that, I just remember that my mom would like instead of a lunchbox, she always gave me these like, cool, fashionable 1950s round sort of purse. And everybody be like, what is that? And you know, I would eat yogurt for lunch. That wasn't a thing in the 90s. Nobody. Yogurt wasn't a big thing yet. You know, that came later with like Chobani and the Greek yogurt craze. And people would look at me weird. And you know, obviously she would give me like whole wheat stuff. And I remember just my eyes falling out of my head when I saw this kid have the Cheez Whiz and then not having any friends and nobody talking to me on the playground and just sitting there and not speaking English. But I don't know if I was conscious of an immigrant, you know, identity at all. I think I went from like the little King. I want to say King because I always felt like a boy when I was a kid, queen of my little friend circle, too, yeah, being just a total outsider and hating it.
Saadia Khan 8:15
And you were only a kid. So I totally get that. But even when I came and I came in my 20s, I wasn't aware of my immigrant identity. It's something that Americans are so obsessed with, although most of them are immigrants, but they are so obsessed with the identity itself. And they try to make sense of it and deconstruct it and create stereotypes around it. And a lot of us when we come to the US, we don't really consciously think of oh, now we are immigrants. And now we are this or that we are here for an experience or for some other reason. Right?
Saadia Khan 8:50
So I did some research on Reddit. And you mentioned you are grand-niece of Bertolt Brecht.
Lucie Pohl 8:59
Yes, my grandfather was Helene Weigel's cousin who was Brecht's wife, and that's why they actually moved to Germany, from Romania. So my my mother's father, my grandfather was a German Jew. And in 1933, he was an intellectual. He was a professor of neuro psychology. And in 1933, somebody told him you're on a list, and his sister was living in Romania. She was married to a Romanian man. So he went to Romania, not knowing that Romania would also be fascist. And that's where he met my grandmother who was a Romanian Jew and a psychology student. And after the war, the Communists took over. And then the communist regime changed in the late 50s, early 60s and Romania. So anybody that was kind of affiliated with the previous communist regime was blacklisted couldn't work. And that's basically what happened to my grandparents. And so they fell into poverty and his cousin Helene Weigel, who was Bertolt Brecht's wife. Bertolt Brecht was already dead at that. point came to Bucharest, the capital of Romania where my my my mom's family lived and saw that her cousin was living in poverty. And she was a big theater star in East Germany and Brecht obviously considered kind of like the godfather of modern theater in a way, you know? And she said, What are you doing? Come back to Germany. You know, my grandfather obviously didn't want to come back to Germany during the war, he was stripped of his citizenship. He was stateless for four years, you know, it was a painful sort of history. But he was already older at that point. And he wanted to work and continue working, as most scientists are, like, obsessed with their with their work. And she said, you know, I'll set you up with a job at the university, I'll set you up with, you know, whatever you need, she had money, and she was a star in East Germany and connections and power. And so she brought them over to East Germany, one week before the wall was built. And they stayed in the Brecht house. And then they were trapped a week later, because the wall went up overnight.
Saadia Khan 10:59
So you come from a famous family? Can we say that?
Lucie Pohl 11:04
Yeah.
Saadia Khan 11:05
So I was reading up on Brecht. And he believed and I could have, a play should not cause the spectator to identify emotionally with the characters or actions before him or her, but should instead provoke rational self reflection and a critical view of the action on the stage.
Saadia Khan 11:26
Do you let any of Brecht's teachings influence your work?
Lucie Pohl 11:31
I think so. I mean, I think that anybody that studies theater comes across Brecht at some point, but of course, that having been in my family, I think, not so much super consciously, like I don't think I ever sat down and thought like, okay, Brecht is what inspires me. But I've always been drawn to, you know, what you're describing, there's this term that he coined, which is the Verfremdungseffekt, which is kind of the like, alienation effect, like you break the fourth wall. It's not realism, not naturalism, which is a lot of what the theater here on Broadway, for example, is a lot of realism.
Lucie Pohl 12:05
You know, if somebody's in a kitchen, they're going to be slicing a cucumber or live on stage, you know, and Brecht sort of broke that, which was, you know, revolutionary and new for the time. And I think I've always been drawn to that, if that maybe is something that's a little bit in my blood, I don't know. But I've always been drawn to the more absurd, I've always been drawn to breaking the fourth wall, I think that's why I like stand up a lot. Because it's such a direct connection with the audience, you really have nothing in between the audience, you know, and I think that's also why I've always loved theater, not because I want to sit there and think this is actually happening, but because I'm sitting there knowing that it's pretend, and I'm still invested in it, and still able to use it to think about my own life or to think about the world. So yeah, I think it does influence me, but not so much on a deliberate level, I think.
Saadia Khan 12:59
So when you have that strong connection with the audience, and you completely stripped off whatever wall or distance you may have, between you and the audience, it probably warrants itself to more vulnerability, right?
Lucie Pohl 13:14
I mean, it's kind of yes and no, in a way, the fact that in stand up, you sort of perfect a set, you know, that's kind of your wall, I guess, your protector that you know how you're going to deliver this or you, you know, you've worked this so much that it goes beyond the room in a way, although, of course, you always still have to read the room. But yes, I think stand up is incredibly vulnerable. I think that that's why most people say, Oh, my God, it's the hardest thing, or it's the scariest thing. You don't really have anything to hide behind. And the truth of what's happening comes out pretty quickly. So yes, there is a lot of vulnerability.
Saadia Khan 13:56
Talk to me about the hard parts of stand up. Has there been any instances where the joke didn't land?
Lucie Pohl 14:03
Yes. Oh, my God, if there hadn't been then I'd be worried. I think every single standup will tell you this, especially the more experience they have the times that you bomb are the most important time why because you learn and also you learn what it means to you why you're doing it, if you want to keep going with it.
Lucie Pohl 14:22
You learn about your joke, or what you're trying to say you're trying to say stuff right, you're, you have a thought you think it's funny, you kind of work it into something that you think you know, will make people laugh, and then you try it out. And you know, sometimes the room is tight. And sometimes the joke is just not there. And sometimes it's both and you learn a lot about yourself as a performer and the more you bombed, the more confident you get because you have that sort of in your bones. You know, it's almost like okay, how bad can this get? I'm not afraid because I think that fear is what sort of takes away from a performance or from being able to be vulnerable, right. So if you're too afraid, you're not gonna be able to open up, you're not going to be able to really show yourself or be truly vulnerable because you're living in that fear. And the more you do something that you're afraid of, or that seems scary most the time, the less afraid you become a bit, or at least I always like to say you learn to embrace the fear and do it despite the fear.
Saadia Khan 15:25
So where does the pain come from then? If you've already conquered the fear?
Lucie Pohl 15:30
Well, I don't think it's about conquering fear. I think it's about doing it. Despite the fear. I think it's about like having the fear be a part of it that you know, even if you say, Okay, I've moved from one country to the next. And now I know how scary it is. Now, when I do it again, it's still going to be scary. But I know that the fear is just a byproduct, I know how to deal with it come, it's packed into my suitcase, along with all the other stuff right there.
Saadia Khan 15:56
You've accepted the fear. It's part of who you are, when you are performing.
Lucie Pohl 16:01
Yes, I kind of thrive off of it. So I'm someone that really loves unexpected stuff to happen on stage, I really thrive off of uncomfortable moments, I really like that I have a hard time with things going the same way. You know, that's why I love live performance, because it's a different animal every night. And it is a true connection with the people in the room. And the room takes on its own sort of life during the course of a show. And that's why I also like hosting shows a lot of comedians don't like the job of the host. I like it because you're kind of like the ship captain that can navigate through these like waters. And I think if you do it right, you can really kind of bring a room together and create like a magic that only exists in that room. And the next time it'll be different, you know, and that's not to say I'm like, I'm so afraid of everything all the time. And I think though with performance, I've just learned that whenever I feel too calm, I get worried. I'm like, oh, this is not I need to be sweating a little bit.
Saadia Khan 17:10
Lucie, you're also a voice actor on a video game called Overwatch. And this is something that our scriptwriter who's also working on this script, found out and he's a huge fan of the game. He plays it with his friends. And you voice one of his favorite characters.
Lucie Pohl 17:29
Cool.
Saadia Khan 17:30
Mercy. Yes. And that's one of the main he alers.
Lucie Pohl 17:33
Yes.
Saadia Khan 17:34
In the game.
Lucie Pohl 17:34
Yes.
Saadia Khan 17:35
Tell me about Mercy.
Lucie Pohl 17:36
So Mercy has become sort of an iconic character in the video game world for this character class of healers or support characters that exists in many games but she's become sort of iconic. She's also become sort of iconic for the game because she has this her catchphrase is, heroes never die. And it's become this like, sort of iconic phrase for the game.
Lucie Pohl 17:56
She's an angel. She's a healer. She's a medical doctor. She's Swiss. Her real name is Dr. Angela Ziegler. She embodies sort of compassion, empathy, strength, and femininity in a lot of like interesting ways. I really love the character because on one hand, the character design is sort of video gamey stereotypically sexy big boobs blonde you know blue eyes this like, in quotes, societally perfect face, you know, symmetric, whatever, but then she's very sassy. She's very educated. She's got opinions, so she has all the sides to her she's not just this like sexy bombshell. She's not just this like soft, compassionate female character. She's also a very strong character and, and she's a badass I really love the character.
Saadia Khan 18:53
And you just said, heroes never die. Yeah, for a price though. That's the whole line.
Lucie Pohl 18:58
No, no, no, that's just a line for a price is just a line that goes with one of her skins that's just that was a line that came with a special event.
Lucie Pohl 19:08
The line is heroes never die.
Saadia Khan 19:09
Talk to me about that line when we see heroes never die. Are we talking about heroes not dying because their legacy lives for ever? Or are we talking about the memory of their work that lives forever? Because I assume physically heroes die eventually.
Lucie Pohl 19:27
I mean, I think it's both I think the line in the game was created because she was able to resurrect the entire team and it's called Overwatch Tw, by the way, now first Overwatch has been retired on the inspiration level. Yes, I think it means that you know, the memory of a hero never dies. The legacy of a hero never dies is a world worth fighting for. So you know, Overwatch is this team of characters who come together to kind of save the world. That line has meant a lot to players and people that know the game I've gotten So many messages and met so many people who have told me that that was a line that sort of, you know, popped into their head when a grandparent was sort of on their deathbed or something. And I think it's it's inspired a lot of people but I think that it can be interpreted in different ways. Yeah.
Saadia Khan 20:19
What does that line mean to you?
Lucie Pohl 20:21
God, I mean, that line now, you know, holds within it. Seven years of voicing this character of traveling all over the world and meeting just incredibly amazing people who have told me their stories and opened up to me and a whole world of friends. And I mean, it means so much to me. It really is a whole world that opened up to me through that line. So yeah.
Saadia Khan 20:47
Talk to me about the industry itself gaming industry. I believe there is sexism within the industry. Have you seen experienced it?
Lucie Pohl 20:57
So I'm not like deep in the gaming industry. But I obviously through this character I've met so many gamers and I have heard so many stories, and yes, there's a lot of toxicities, especially for female gamers, it's really hard. The online world in general, I think we don't have to be gamers to know that online is toxic. And that, especially for females, like I put out a stand up clip, you know, not too long ago, and you won't believe how many comments there are from males that are like women aren't funny. This woman isn't funny. And it's like, that's fine. Fair enough. You don't not everybody has to find me funny. But the sexism you know, the focus on the gender is extreme. And so yeah, I think in gaming, it's really toxic. I think that there's a lot of female gamers that are trying to change things. I think that the companies Blizzard, Riot Games, all I think a lot of the companies are aware and are trying to make a big push to give platforms to female gamers or female identifying gamers. But yeah, I think that it's a big problem. I have not seen it firsthand, because I'm not a gamer. But I've seen my own sexism in my own life. So I can imagine that the gaming world is not safe from sexism.
Saadia Khan 22:10
So I want to go back to our interview on your podcast, Lucie and I started this conversation by referring to it, you asked me on the show the question that a lot of people ask, Where are you from? And then we did a deep dive into what that question meant, and what the intention is sometimes. But there's another question that Americans ask a lot, which is, what do you do? And for a lot of people, that question holds a lot of value. Because being in a capitalistic society, our self worth our sense of self is pretty much intertwined with our work, what we do, how we present ourselves how successful we are, how do you see that question? And what do you say about the assumptions that that particular question holds?
Lucie Pohl 23:03
I was actually saying this to my friend just a couple of days ago, even though I so much reject the idea of a meritocracy and hate the idea of that I still am not safe from how it's been drilled into my brain, and I am definitely a person who feels guilty if I am not achieving, or I'm not working, especially being self employed, you know, it's even more so this thing of like, Oh, my God, I just did something fun, or I just read today, get the whip out? How dare you, you know, be productive. And so I constantly have to remind myself of it. I think that the like brainwashing is pretty deep. And I said, this one, when we talked on my podcast, I think that for me questions are okay, I want to assume that they come from the right place. I do think that for me, in the past, I felt this need when people have asked me to like list my resume, but now I'm at a point where I kind of, you know, I was at this fancy dinner recently. And there's, you know, this like, kind of ridiculous guy sitting next to me who was older, and I guess accomplished and telling me about all his accomplishments. And at one point, he said, What do you do? And then I said, I'm a comedian, and it felt so good because I felt myself relax and feel like, you know, he's gonna ask me, What have you been on? You know, or he's gonna look at me in a certain way because I'm not famous, and he doesn't know why I am, you know, historically, I would have been like, but I've done this, and I've done and I'm working on this and I'm working on that. And I just sort of relax and thought it's so nice that I don't give I can curse, right? Absolutely. A fuck about what this guy thinks of me.
Lucie Pohl 24:52
And you know, another thing that people in New York do to put you in a box or to judge you is ask you in what neighborhood you live at. And I used to live in the East Village and so I would get people going. Oh, okay. Uh huh. Are you I've done well in life. Now I live in Ridgewood, Queens. And so he said, where do you what neighborhood you live in? I said, Ridgewood, Queens. And I could feel his face kind of go a little bit like, Oh, that's too bad. I was seated next to this peasant. You know, I'm joking. But like that kind of like expression. And I said, Have you been? And he said, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure I've driven through it or something? Well, I think you've remembered. It's a really great neighborhoods. Yeah. Right. And I was just like, you know, I think you'd remember it's a great neighborhood. And it's actually a really cool neighborhood. And it's so beautiful, and, you know, whatever.
Lucie Pohl 25:41
So all of that, I think now, the older I get, the more I kind of relax into not attaching my self-worth to my accomplishments. I mean, you know, I think as artists and in this industry, we are hard on ourselves, you know, a lot of people say, Well, if you can live off of what you love to do, that's a success, right? And I struggle with how to define success all the time. And like I said, I'm not safe from being in this mentality of this meritocracy at all. But I constantly remind myself not to attach my self worth. And I think it's, it's sad, but I think it's the construct that capitalism needs to function, it needs to be that way. Otherwise, it falls apart and everybody would go wait a minute, we're human beings, we don't need this. We need something else. I'll never forget one of my good friends from high school, I was debating what business school to go to for her Master's. And she said, Well, I could go to Fordham or I could go to NYU Stern or whatever it is. But you know, if I go to Fordham, it'll be a lot cheaper, but then I'll be with people, you know, and then they like, go into jobs. They make like, I don't know, like, 80,000 a year I want to be, you know, I want to get into a place where I have a real job, you know, you just hear yourself, what are you talking about? And then you know, this like slaving away just for the money. I think for me, that's the sadder aspect of it that's like chasing of money. And this idealization of people who make money. Like if you say, Jeff Bezos is a piece of shit, people go, okay, yeah, you can say is a piece of shit. And I'm like, he's an idiot. No, you can't say he's an idiot. He's not an idiot. And I'm like, why can't I say that? Well, because look at what he's done. He's become the richest man in the world. And then I'm like, Yeah, because you have to be a psychopath. He's a psychopath or sociopath. Why do we worship idolize idolize people that chase money. And we're not allowed to say that guy's an idiot, because he can't be an idiot. He's a genius, because He's the richest man in the world. And for me, it's like, no, that has nothing to do with intellect, intelligence or genius.
Saadia Khan 27:45
In this country, at least 30% people voted for Trump because of his perceived wealth that he had created. Right? Yeah. So that is a manifestation of capitalism, quintessentially capitalism or capitalistic, right?
Lucie Pohl 28:00
Absolutely. There's an interesting article years ago, in the Times about how low income people identify more with rich people and vote against tax hikes for rich people, because they identify with one day being there, they're trying to get there, so they feel closer to them.
Saadia Khan 28:17
The unfortunate reality is not everybody can get there.
Lucie Pohl 28:21
No.
Saadia Khan 28:21
And it's okay not to be able to get ther.e
Lucie Pohl 28:25
Well, that's the thing. I don't know. That's what I was gonna say. I don't know if it's an unfortunate reality, the unfortunate reality is that we're told that if we're not there, we are not smart. Like we're not clever. If you were really clever, you would have figured out how to be rich, right? Because if you're rich, you must be clever when so many things go into that generational wealth, you know, like your skin color.
Saadia Khan 28:49
Your socioeconomic status, legacy and exactly everything.
Lucie Pohl 28:54
Exactly. Exactly. So and that's also something that capitalism needs to survive is exactly that mentality. You know, this, like, if you're smart, you'll be rich.
Saadia Khan 29:04
And you bring up such an important point. Lucy, people vote against Medicare for All.
Lucie Pohl 29:09
Yeah.
Saadia Khan 29:09
Vote against unionization.
Lucie Pohl 29:11
Yeah, yeah.
Saadia Khan 29:12
Okay with that, yeah. Because as you said, they want to be there and they don't have to be and there is no reason why everybody should aim to be at a certain place beyond economic wealth. There's so much more that life has to offer, right?
Saadia Khan 29:29
But I want to switch gears and I want to talk about a show that you did off Broadway. It was your first show that you wrote, Hi, Hitler, and I have a story here. I was listening to or watching one of your interviews where you talk about how as a child, you thought it was Hi,Hitler.
Lucie Pohl 29:48
Like a greeting, right?
Saadia Khan 29:49
Yep.
Saadia Khan 29:49
Growing up in Pakistan as a child, I thought it was Hi, Hitler too.
Lucie Pohl 29:54
Yeah. That's awesome.
Saadia Khan 29:55
It's so funny because I was always embarrassed to say that this is what I thought.
Saadia Khan 30:01
But yeah. Now talk to me about this show. What was the thinking behind it? Because to me when I think of it, it is a stand up routine structurally right? But was it created to be outrageously funny? Or was it created to draw some kind of reaction from the audience.
Lucie Pohl 30:20
It actually wasn't a straight stand up show, I would say it was more of a storytelling comedy. And I played a lot of different characters in it. So like, more closer to like, sort of John Leguizamo style, which isn't like straight stand up. But more storytelling, I have to be really honest, is the first show that I wrote. And I created it with this guy, Matt Hoverman, who used to do these solo show workshops. And I think, you know, I didn't really analyze what my goal was so much, I just kind of like threw up stuff on on paper, and then did like 15 minutes of it and got reactions and then did 30 minutes and then applied to a festival. And they were like, it has to be 50 minutes. And I was like, Oh my God, I need to write more stuff and then wrote more stuff. And then was like, I'm going to Edinburgh I know nothing about it. But I'm doing it and just sort of like went on this ride. And I don't think at that point, I was so much in a place where I thought too much about what I wanted the show to evoke. Because it was very raw. And and you know, I always struggled with the ending for that reason, for example, because I think I wasn't super clear on you know, what I really wanted people to walk away with, I wanted to tell a story. I wanted to make people laugh, for sure. And it was funny, but it was very personal. It was about my family. It was about my upbringing, it was about this like a fish out of water feeling of never fitting in.
Lucie Pohl 30:44
You know, I've written three other solo shows since then. And I never really thought too much about what I wanted to evoke. Besides, I want to make people laugh and tell a story and have you know a fun entertaining night. With Hi, Hitler. It was the first one I thought nobody would connect to it. I thought nobody would care. You know, I used to watch John Leguizamo: Freak and think oh my god, he has a community he's you know, Latino, there's so many people that can connect to his story, you know, especially Colombia, and that's like such a big immigrant community. And in the beginning of freak he sort of comes out on stage and he goes on my Latin people say this, our bark and all my black people meow and then all my white people they says like a super long Spanish sentence that the white people can't repeat. So it gets a big laugh, but at the same time, it establishes his community, right? And I sort of thought, oh my god, what am I gonna say?
Lucie Pohl 32:39
Like all my German Jewish Romanian, New York people who don't know what they are? Or what they identify as bark? Like, what, who am I connecting to? And then in doing the show, you know, so many people would come up to me and say, Oh, my God, I feel the same way. I don't feel at home anywhere, or I've learned this, or my upbringing is crazy, or whatever. And so that kind of became more and more of the central focus of the show this like feeling of not having a home. And through the show, I also sort of understood my own history, the fact that on both my mom and my dad's side, this feeling of home or displacement is generational. So yeah, I never really thought when I was writing it what I wanted it to evoke. But that's kind of what ended up happening, that it became about displacement and being a fish out of water.
Saadia Khan 33:25
And at least the way I see it, I feel like human emotions, in some instances, specifically, are so universal As humans, we are looking for that sense of belonging for sure. And self worth, are people and people who can understand us so it is so intrinsically human in a way.
Lucie Pohl 33:46
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's that book Homo Sapiens and stuff that kind of talks about this, like tribe, the tribal nature of humans and all of that. And I think that is true, like we try to find, try to find our tribes right and try to make community I think that's why we're sort of, especially in this country in this like crisis because of the individualism and because of how social media has kind of like cordoned us off from each other and stuff. But yeah, the show definitely did that. And, and more than that, it opened up this like world to me, where I realized, Oh, my God, you know, back to your point of vulnerability, if you put yourself out there. And if you dare to be vulnerable, you will find the people that understand that see that or even if they have a different background, it doesn't really matter. We are the same. We are one world you know, we are really like you said, our emotions are all the same all over the world.
Saadia Khan 34:41
The only thing we need to do is not be scared of people who are different, not be scared of our differences. I think there's so much fear, especially in America around differences that exist that we've become so isolated, and so siloed because of that.
Lucie Pohl 34:59
Yeah.
Saadia Khan 35:04
So Lucie, in the end, I just have one question that I asked all my guests. I don't have rapid fire unfortunately. If you were to define America in a word or a sentence, how would you do that?
Lucie Pohl 35:18
America? I think I would define it as a beautiful wild horrible place. I like I said, it's a beautiful wild horrible place.
Saadia Khan 35:28
I really like that. Where can people find your podcast? Where can they find your work?
Lucie Pohl 35:33
Yeah, my podcast Immigrant Jam that Saadia has been on. Very exciting.
Lucie Pohl 35:39
You can find anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can also find the videos on Youtube @LuciePohl. You can find me on Instagram @youlovlucie and then you can take it from there. I have a live show in New York, which is also called Immigrant Jam the first Friday of the month at Caveat, but if you go to Instagram, you can find all that there or listen to the podcast anywhere you get your podcasts.
Saadia Khan 36:05
Thank you so much, Lucie. This was wonderful.
Lucie Pohl 36:07
Thank you so much.
Saadia Khan 36:14
So how did you like the conversation? Lucie is funny, she's passionate. She's honest. I had so much fun and the question about belonging and self worth through it. What are your thoughts on it? How do you view your sense of belonging? How do you see your people? Do you think that human emotions are universal and that we can see beyond how we physically look?
Saadia Khan 36:41
Write to me, you can always reach me at saadia@immigrantlypod.com This episode was produced by me written by Rainier Harris and me. The editorial review was done by Shei Yu. Our editor is Haziq Ahmad Farid and our theme music is done by Simon Hutchinson. Don't forget to follow us on socials. Instagram @Immigrantlypod Twitter @Immigrantly_pod and we are even on TikTok. And as my kids would say, I am putting out some cringy videos there so you don't want to miss that. Our TikTok handle is @Immigrantlypodcast. I will see you next time with another incredible story. Take care.